Wrong Questions for the Church

How about we change some of the questions we are always asking around the church?  I'm not saying we stop asking the following questions, but maybe we make an effort to stop allowing them to be the first questions asked...here are some of my thoughts

Instead of asking about seating capacity....ask about serving capacity

Instead of asking about money given....ask about money deployed

Instead of asking how many people came....ask what type of people left

Instead of asking how many conversions....ask how many disciples

Instead of asking how many people heard....ask how many people obeyed

Just a thought....

Comments

[Ron]

This is awesome pastor Steve.

[Bob & Mary Ann Coghlan]

These are great - I'll pas them on to our leadership - we miss you - say Hi to Dana and thank Darlene again for discipleship info.

Shalom & Love

[Steve]

will do. darlene just left for a well deserved vacation, but i'll let her know.

[Berni]

Can I ask you why you teach your congregation that Tongues are not for today?
How about we ask that question of your church?
What about this scripture:
Mark 16:17-18 says “And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they WILL recover.”

[RevivalOrRiots]

How about the question of how much money you are spending to build your little ministry empire instead of actually using it to impact the community?

How about the question of when was the last time you personally prayed for an unbeliever out in public rather than ignoring them while you prepare your sermons on Sunday mornings in a coffee shop?

How about the question of why you disempower entire congregations of people who are spiritually seeking truth by building an entire doctrine around spiritual powerlessness based on one verse taken extremely out of context? ("...when the perfect comes..")

How about the question of why you don't look like Jesus by doing what He said to do? (John 14:12, 1 John 2:3-6)

Have you ever read Matthew 23?

I think the Lord has a word for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZsmeZNfqFA

[Steve]

Hey Berni, i do NOT teach that tongues are not operational today. we teach that tongues should be under the same scrutiny as the other gifts. I would never allow a man to teach in our church w/o first qualifying his teaching and message. If someone has a tongue for us, we simply to the same qualification of the tongue. who said that it has to be spontaneous to be Spirit led? The leadership can hear a tongue (w/ an interpreter) and then decide if it is from God or not and discern best how to communicate it. At least, that is how we approach it. thx Berni

[Steve]

Revival,
Have you ck'd how we are spending our $? Have you called and asked me personally about praying for the lost? Have you listened to our teaching? I am all about standing for righteousness, but please do this with the spirit of Jesus and take the time to know people instead of just blasting everyone. We have so much to do for Jesus, pls use more energy being for what HE is for and less energy raging about how the world is not what we hope for. thx!
I know the Lord has a word for me...I'm trying my best to live in that w/ obedience. Thx for posting!

[RevivalOrRiots]

I have seen first hand how you are spending the money---asking congregants to get on board with your latest programs and projects and harping on people who weren't giving---I heard it from your mouth the first and only time I set foot in your multi-million dollar building....yet on your church website you have said you'd never ask for money.

Strange indeed.

I have friends who have encountered the power of God and been healed and then listened to you and your leadership team tell them that it was from the devil because all that passed away---and it severely messed them up.

Fruit speaks for itself.

[Steve]

We record every service we do here. if you can tell me date and time that you were here i will go back and listen to what you refer to. i don't recall ever standing up and asking people for money. so please let me know when that happened and i'll go and listen.
As to your friends, that is called gossip. anyone who speaks against a fellow believer w/o taking that grievance to them first is a gossiper and would be wrong to do that. Please list the names of anyone that i have sinned against that has attended and were a part of this congregation and i will personally contact them and try to work it out. but if you are referring to what sounds like gossip...i think i'll leave that to you to wrestle with.

[Steve]

In terms of fruit for this community i know and can document that over 20K people had clean water today because of the generosity of this church. Several thousand got a meal and many good causes for Jesus in our city and around the world were done because of the generosity of this community.
If you don't like us cuz we built a building, then so be it, but i will lay the evidence of Jesus among us and His fruit coming out of us as proof enuf! again, thx for your response cuz it caused a quick introspection and prayer. I will allow Jesus to be our judge in these matters.

[RevivalOrRiots]

I am not sure about the date--it was when you had the congregation walk through the building-in-process across the parking lot.

[Berni]

Hey Steve,

Thanks for responding. But to clarify I did not speak about a message given in tongues or a gift of tongues but praying in the spirit to edify yourself. To clarify further, the person I am referring to is a member of your church and comes to me quite often for ministry. When I felt led to speak to her about the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the evidence of speaking in tongues to build herself up as she prayed in the Spirit she replied that you, as her pastor, do not endorse this. Thereby making the word of God of no effect in my opinion.
In fact in a bible study at your church she was further told that people in your congregation leave churches where people pray in tongues, again making the word of God of no effect.

To clarify my position I want to offer you an article writen by Andrew Wommack:
http://www.awmi.net/bible/1co_14_04

1 Corinthians 14:4

He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Note 7 at 1 Cor. 14:4: This is the second of four benefits of speaking in tongues that Paul mentions in this chapter (see note 4 at v. 2, p. 943).

When we pray in tongues, we edify (see note 4 at Acts 9:31, p. 626) ourselves. The word edify means "the act of building...the promotion of spiritual growth" (W.E. Vine). Speaking in tongues builds us up (Jude 20) and promotes spiritual growth.

The Lord promised us that He would comfort us in all our tribulation (2 Cor. 1:4) and that is specifically what the gift of speaking in tongues does for us. Later in this chapter, in verse 21, Paul quotes from Isaiah 28:11-12 and specifically applies those verses to speaking in tongues. Therefore, in Isaiah 28:11-12, the Lord said that speaking in tongues was refreshing and the "rest" where with you may cause the weary to rest.

Speaking in tongues is a powerful force for promoting spiritual growth and giving us refreshing and rest in trying situations.

Note 8 at 1 Cor. 14:4: In context, Paul is contrasting the gift of speaking in tongues and the gift of prophecy that operate in the church assembly. In the church, prophecy is better than speaking in tongues (unless there is an interpretation-see note 12 at v. 5, this page) because it benefits the whole group, not just one individual. That is certainly true and understandable, but Paul is not discrediting at all the personal benefit of speaking in tongues. On the contrary, he says that anyone who speaks in tongues edifies himself (see note 7 at this verse).

The ability to edify ourselves is priceless. Too many Christians are dependent on others to get built up spiritually. If there was no other benefit to be derived from speaking in tongues (see note 4 at v. 2, p. 945), this would be reason enough to pursue this gift.

Note 9 at 1 Cor. 14:4: This simple gift of prophecy (see note 26 at 1 Cor. 12:10, p. 930) edifies (see note 7 at this verse) the church. Those who believe that these spiritual gifts are not for us today are depriving themselves and others of edification.

I hope this clarifies things a little. I don't think that you as a pastor who is concerned about the well being of those put in your charge would leave out valuable tools such as these?
If you want to investigate further and I hope that you are open to such, please check also the next page on the same site:
http://www.awmi.net/bible/1co_14_05
1 Corinthians 14:5

I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Sincerely,
Berni